R. Kelly: Clinical Expert Says His Body Language With Gayle King Raises A Lot Of Red Flags | Access
August 17, 2019
>>Gayle king’s explosive and emotional interview with R. Kelly He lashes out over sex abuse allegations. Welcome to “Access live.” Natalie is on assignment for the today show today.>>Get visibly upset. Gayle spoke with him for nearly 80 minutes yesterday, this first TV interview since he was charged with ten counts of aggravated criminal sexual abuse. Authorities say three of the four alleged victims were under age at the time the crimes happened. He has pleaded not guilty.>>And the clip we just saw Gayle said right after that, Oprah called her and asked if she was afraid. Did she think he was going to hit her. She said, I thought I would accidentally get clobbered. I never felt in danger talking to him. I never felt that watching Gayle I thought, wow, this was a man that can go from this stage to this stage with the flip of a switch.>>I know it definitely seemed like a flip of a switch. You can tell this is that’s been building in M. It’s a situation where the thing that really sets you off isn’t the thing you’re upset about it’s all these other things. But it is crazy to think that his attorneys would allow this interview to happen, especially with the potential of him responding like that. Like, this doesn’t help him in any sort of way.>>He’s pleading his innocence throughout — help us unpack all of this, associate professor of psychiatry at the New York presbyterian hospital. Gayle salts joins us from new York. Good to see you, Dr. Salts. You just saw right there R. Kelly showed up. What do you make of that behavior?>>Well: Aw it certainly demonstrates poor impulse control, which is concerning because, you know, that is a factor whenb frankly,7,) Is what is the person’[email protected]** impulse control. And, you know,d=k obviously that isn’t something he would want to have done on camera. Even if he feel”@$** all those feelings. So, the inability to sort of contain himself in the moment**2 isx>t>Hehbo Q W said he’swps(q$ & fighting [email protected]**2z>>gks either+y **c)j k#8sx he is.hfupbj$sr#e=**1izpy 8wvcb0qzi8 here he is right here#m) Strongly denying havingub>>Have you ever5 had **y4% no.e** K%>>Never?hzj=>>]Bax**m?& ‘lac**p no.>>So they’re lying on you,a that’s your lyinwtl**>A****uey absolutely.>kq1**q2& vo<_ absolutely.>>You feel the people have maligned your character?>>I have been ****m ]gy****assassinated. I have been buried alive. But I’mj alive.>>So, I think the point you’re making is — and I’m wrong — that you have never held anybody against their will?>>I don’t need to. Why would I? How stupid would it be for R. Kelly, with all I’ve been through in my way, way past, to hold somebody — let alone four, five, six, 50 you said. How stupid I would be to do that’s stupid, you guys.>>>>>They are charismatic and they feel convincing.>>R. Kelly comes into the interview at one point and tries to calm him down. Here’s what happened next.>>I don’t want you just ranting at the camera.>>I came for them to hear me talk. I need help –>>What kind of help?>>This is the kind of help I need.>>What kind of help?>>I need somebody to help me not have a big heart because my heart is so big. People betrey me and I keep forgiving them.>>You sound like you’re playing the victim here. You sound like R. Kelly — you do — I listen to you — you’re playing the victim.>>I’m just telling the truth and the reason I’m emotional — I apologize for that — is because this is the first time I was able to say something. I’ve said nothing.>>Dr. Salts, we found this particularly interesting. Describe the victim mentality when someone is being accused of what he has been accused of.>>I’ve got a big heart?>>When somebody believes that they are deserving, and they feel betrayed — and believe me, someone who feels that they were in some way promised to have what they want, to get what they want, and have people remain loyal to them — I mean, look at, you know, what’s going on in our country in general. People who believe that people should be loyal to them, and then they are not loyal to them can become very enraged. It has nothing to do, necessarily, with the outer ethics and morality of the situation. It has to do with someone who truly believes that they have demanded loyalty, that they were promised loyalty, and that that loyalty was betrayed.>>This makes no sense to me.>>Narcissism is often behind such claims that they should have loyalty, and believe that they are entitled to what they want at all costs.>>Wow, two women, 23-year-old Jocelyn savage and 21-year-old currently live with R. Kelly at home in Chicago. Their parents believe that Kelly has brain washed their daughters, so, Gayle asked him about these women.>>Are you an older man that likes younger women?>>I’m an older man that loves all women.>>Okay. Azarelle clairy, what is your relationship with her?>>I’m seeing her.>>Did you have sex with her when she was 17?>>Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Although her parents want pd me>>No, her parents claim they have text messages that show you had sex with her when she was 17.>>Claim, claim.>>You’re saying you did not have sex with her?>>Absolutely not.>>You are with two IBM right you love them. They say they love you. What kind of love is it that keeps these young women away from their families? Their families are saying — I’m talking right now about Jocelyn>>I’m going to answer your question. What kind of father, what kind of mother will sell their daughter to a man?>>Who did that?>>How come it was okay for me to see them until they wasn’t getting no money from it? Why would you take your daughter — if I were gonna take my daughter and she’s 19 years old to a 49-year-old icon, whatever, celebrity or R. Kelly concert or whoever it is, I’m not gonna put her on the stage and leave her. I’m gonna take her to the their father is more into my music and know about my music than they do.>>You’re saying the parents handed their daughters azerel and Jocelyn over to you? Is that what you’re saying?>>Acsabsolutely.>>So he knows it’s wrong.>>The issue here is that, right, he doesn’t even know what he’s saying. He doesn’t even know what he’s he’s trying to put the blame — why would a father — why would parents sell their daughter — why would you be buying children?>>Yeah, so he’s admitting to blame here, but then deflecting everything that is on him –>>Dr. Salts, I’m going to need to call you after this. This is nuts.>>I’ll tell you, there are big red flags. When you are always the victim and everybody else is to blame and you are always able to point the finger at someone else, that is a big red concerning flag. When you — when a young woman or any woman, when a person is separated from their family and not allowed to communicate with friends, with family, is isolated and only allowed to be with the, quote, significant other, that is a big red flag. That is a red flag. I talk to young women about this all the time. If you are isolated from others, that is a abuse fine. There are a number of things he is couching in a certain way. But he is saying blatantly that really incriminate him. That’s the reality. They really incriminate him whether he understands that or>>It doesn’t seem like he knows what he’s saying. At one point he even blamed social media as a way for women to get together and plot against him –>>Or that it happens to every>>R. Kelly has three children, a 20-year-old daughter, an 18-year-old daughter who identifies as male, and a 16-year-old son. Gayle asked about how being a father has factored into all of this.>>You have daughters. If your daughters called you and said that somebody is doing to them what the allegations are about you, would you be okay with that?>>Let me tell you something. I’d be up in that [ bleep ] Everything up. I had to bleep myself.>>If your daughter came to you and said somebody is doing to me what the allegations –>>I would have to arrest myself after I do what I had to did.>>You’ve been candid you are a sexual abuse survivor yourself. You talk candidly you were molested from the age of 7 to 13, 14. How did you think that has affected you?>>It hasn’t affected me at all — it has affected me. It affected me in this way. Anything that I’ve been through, that or any struggles I’ve had in my past has affected my music.>>Has it affected your behavior?>>Absolutely not. Because I’m gonna tell you something. I know people say well, he was abused.>>Exactly.>>That’s why he’s doing that. No, no, no, no.>>When you say you need help, do you think you need therapy? Have you been to therapy?>>Absolutely at this point, I’m talking about that.>>About going?>>Absolutely.>>It seems like someone could say you might seem out of touch to a lot of people –>>What do you mean?>>I mean, your perception of the charges against you. I know it’s your side and it’s your story. But you have a different perception that most of the world has about you.>>I have the truth. People have perceptions. I have truth.>>Do you think you’re invi invincible?>>Absolutely not, I’m human.>>Doctor, your wrap up. What is your take on the overall clips we showed you this>>My overall take, I think a lot of very concerning things were expressed, and I think he’s in a lot of denial about his situation at this point, and he probably would be better to not go in front of the cameras at all. And I think that it is important for people to understand that not all people who have been abused become abusers.>>Right.>>But the idea that one is unaffected by abuse is not believable, it is just not believable. And this is somebody who should have been in therapy probably long ago.>>And I want to — not that you necessarily need to cosign, but I do want to take a moment and acknowledge if you are out there, if you are someone who has been affected by or a victim of or been an abuser, please know that help is available, that you are not alone in that. It is okay to seek help. It is okay to seek help. Watching clips like that make you feel like, oh, yeah, it could easily make you feel like, if he don’t get it, I don’t need it. It is okay to seek help.>>Dr. Salts, we’ll need you, too, on Friday, the interview with the two young women that are currently living with him speak up. We’re going to need you again, Dr. Salts.>>Happy to come back.>>Thanks so much.